Howdy. We just finished our 3rd game of Basic Impetus tonight. So far we are very taken with the rules. DBA has been the most common set played here, with some recent dabbling in Field of Glory. But poking around on TMP led me to download Basic Impetus and read it. I showed it to two other gents and they liked what they saw too.

So now, having played 3 games, we've come up with some questions.

Shieldwall rule. The question that came up is when do you lose shieldwall status?
The rule says you must be fresh and in good order to form it, and you do not lose it if you become disordered but you do if you move. Ok so far, but what happens if you take a hit and become worn? Do you lose the status? It seems odd that the only way to lose it is by moving.

I also find it a bit odd that shieldwall is more effective against better troops. A fresh Saxon Huscarl shifts 3 dice when attacking a shieldwall. -2 dice for no impetus and +1 to the shieldwall's dice. But a fresh Saxon Fyrd unit only shifts 2 dice, -1 to impetus and +1 to the shieldwall's dice. Units with more Impetus Bonus suffer more...

Multiple unit melees:
How does this situation break down?



Does 1 fight A and 2 fight B?
Or Does 2 fight A and 1 and B are support?

And then we had this:


Who fights who here?


Thanks in advance. We really have enjoyed the rules so far. I am already considering rebasing all my DBA stuff to the larger Impetus bases, or buying more 10mm stuff and rebasing my Warmaster armies. 10mm on those big bases has to look good
Already pretty much sold on buying Impetus as well.

Bardolph

hello Bardolph, welcome on board

I have read on TMP the report of your game, I guess you had fun

Shieldwall.
You loose shieldwall status alos if you are no longer Fresh. I will specify this in the special rule as is not clear.
So you get this status if Fresh and don't move (but you can move, loose the status and then, if still Fresh, make another shieldwall)

The shield wall nullify the Impetus bonus, so troops with higher Impetus could seem those more penalized.
Still probably they are the best troop to fight the shieldwall. This is because it is much better to loose a die than have to make a cohesion test with alower VBU. Huscarls have a VBU=6, that is the best for infantry. If they charge a shieldwall will have more chances to resist and perform more melee.
If you "break the shieldwall" (you make one loss to the Unit with Shiledwall, so it is no longer Fresh) and you follow-up you may benefit your Impetus bonus if you are still Fresh as well (and you have more chance to remain Fresh with a Unit with VBU=6).

The general tactical advice is that the Cohesion Test is more important than the dice you roll in melee. Much better to roll 4 dice instead of 7 but make a Cohesion Test with the higher VBU.


Multiple Unit melee.

In the first example

2 fights A and 1 and B are support

In the second example B HAVE to fight with 3 as there is no way they can make different, so the melee is splitted.
So B cannot support A (you can support 2 melee, but if you are the Main Unit you cannot be also a supporting Unit), while 2 is still supported by 1.

Note that things may change so it is important from which melee to start. For the "Reds" it is better to start with B. If wins and 3 retreats than can help A.
For the "Blues" is is bettere to start with 2 vs A. They are 2 against 1 and if 2 wins than can help 3. To be more precise in this case if 2 wins it becomes the main Unit of the other melee as enages the greater part of B's front.

Multiplee melee are the most complex part of the game and it is better explained in Impetus than in BI. Where is not clear roll a die to decide.

Howdy, thanks for the welcome and the reply.

Looks like we guessed right as far as the shieldwall thing. We decided to play that you lost the shieldwall status if you took a hit.
I see what you are saying, and indeed the huscarls are the best unit on the Saxon side to attack a shieldwall with, just seemed odd that they "lost" more dice than a unit of Fyrd for example. I will say that our experience in the third game that I posted about on TMP was different from our second game. In the second game the shieldwalls proved decisive, but in the third game once the Vikings decided to end the mutual standoff they were able to break the Saxon shieldwall in two places. Some snazzy dice rolling helped to be sure but it showed us it was possible.

We played the first melee example wrong it looks like, we split it into two fights.
The second example we got right it seems.


While rereading the rules again last night (always learn more after actually playing the game and then reading the rules again) I found a couple more points I am not clear on.

Losses due to cohesion test while disordered:
If a unit is disordered and is forced to take a cohesion test it takes a loss for being disordered again. Is this in addition to any losses it takes from failing the test, or does this only apply if it passes the test?
For example, VBU 6 unit is disordered, takes 3 damage and rolls a 6, failing the test. Does it lose 4 permanent VBU (VBU 6, minus 3 for damage, minus 1 for disorder = Critical number of 2. Fails by 4)?
Or does he lose 5 permanent VBU, the above plus one more for being disordered and taking a cohesion test?


Impetus. I read the relevant parts several times and only got more confused lol.
Initially we played that only the attacking/charging unit got the Impetus bonus.
Then we decided both units got the Impetus bonus (assuming they are fresh of course)
Upon rereading the rules and some posts here I am now not sure.

Terrain. The rules state that at least half the unit must be in terrain for it to be considered "in" the terrain.
Does this apply to the movement penalties as well, or do the movement penalties apply if any part of the unit is in the terrain?
We've been playing the latter.

At any rate, congrats on a damn fine game.
We've mostly been playing DBA, but have been looking at other sets recently; DBMM, FOG, Might of Arms, Warrior Kings, Warmaster etc. but the response to Basic/Impetus has been very good and it may well take the top spot in our little group. Look forward to reading the full version soon.

well the case in which you split the melee is not so far away, simply A shlud be more on 1 and B more on 2.



if you fail the test than you apply the losses decided by the die. If you pass the test, but you are already disordered then you get 1 loss and keep the disorder. In other words if you enter in a melee (or are shoot at) disordered then you get at least 1 loss if your opponent roll at least a 6 or a double 5.


Impetus
Impetus applies only to the charging Unit. It applies also if you follow up and reach the retreating Unit.

This rule, combined with the one above will put some Units in the following doubt. Better to reorder for not have a melee in disorder or better to charge now, in disorder, but with the Impetus bonus?


Terrain

the rules apply also for movement. These are big bases and Impetus don't allow you to make columns. This choice permit the Units to be more flexible.

Excellent! Thank you so much for the clarifications
Makes me want to jump in the car and drive 30 miles to the game shop to play another game tonight hehe!

We had been applying the cohesion disorder hit PLUS the hits from failing the test. From 3 of us reading the rules that was what it looked like.

Impetus applying only to the charging unit is the way we played the first game, then we changed after rereading the rules. You might want to make it a little clearer. Part of what threw us off I think was the quick reference sheet where it shows how to figure melee combat and says
"Main units involved roll D6=VBU + I + modifiers"
We jumped to the wrong conclusion that both units got Impetus. Makes much more sense now I mean, it is called "Impetus" after all...

The terrain thing is nice to know. One of last nights Viking players will be wanting revenge after getting his units hung up on the edge of some woods

Thanks again,

Bardolph

I've done up a modified version of the Basic Impetus rules highlighting the points you clarified above. I also included graphics of all the multiple melee examples.
Ended up at 9 pages instead of 8. I would be more than happy to send a copy your way if you would find it useful.

You can send to dadiepiombo AT libero DOT it

I can use as clarifications.