So I've been thinking about BI and Impetus. I've also been thinking about the huge range of GW LOTR models and how neat they would look based up Impetus style. I was wondering, would you guys use the fantasy lists that are forthcoming (assuming they can be used to represent LOTR factions), or to find a historical list that resembles the faction in question?

I thought that one could simply take Gondor for example and categorize them as such (with the GW model collection in mind):
1. units of average FP armed with swords and some with long spears
2. units of average T armed with bows
3. use the plastic rangers as above average S with bows
4. knights of Gondor as above average CP
5. knights of Dol Amroth as exceptional CP
6. Maybe some rangers with hand weapons as above average FL

Anyway, if I had some idea of the math behind the points system, I could create army lists for various factions. Another alternative (which I haven't really tried yet) would be to try and match a faction to a historical faction that seems to perform the same.

Here's the thing - there are GW troop boxes with 24 to 30 troops for $30.00, and 30% off in many online stores. It strikes me that it would be a great use for these very affordable models (I'm not really interested in the GW game)

Ideas? Thoughts? Criticisms?

Hi Jet,
we are sorry for don't have jet done some list but we are working for to do in the next month.
Our ideas are to use few miniature, so if you want to play in 28mm you don't have to spend so much money ( great things! ).
Ciao
Sergente Sturm

Sarge,

Thanks for the update. One more question. My 10mm high elf collection consists of the following models:
- high lef spearman
- archers
- knights (with lances)
- light horse (with bows)
- bolt throwers
- giant eagles
- dragons
- chariots

Will all of these be useable in forthcoming army list?

Thanks,
JET

GONDOR

Num Type M VBU I D VD Pts Notes

FP 5 5 2 B 3 Long Spear
T 6 4 0 B 2 Short Bow A
CP 8 6 4 B 3
0-1 CP 8 7 4 C 3 Impetuous, Knight Dol Amroth
S 8 3 1 B 1 Short Bow B, Rangers
FL 8 4 1 B 2 Various weapons o Javelin, Rangers

WOOD ELF
Num Type M VBU I D VD Pts Notes

CM 10 5 2 B 3
FL 8 5 1 B 2 Long Bow A
S 8 3 1 B 1 Long Bow B

ORCS MORDOR

Num Type M VBU I D VD Pts Notes

CM 5 5 2 B 3 Javelin, Wargs riders
1/3 CM 5 5 2 B 3 Comp. bow B , wargs riders
0-2 FL 8 5 2 C 2 Impetuous Elite, Long Unit, Deep 2, +2 by each unit deep
FL 8 4 2 C 2 Impetuous, Long Unit, Deep 3, +2 by each unit deep
S 8 2 0 B 1 Short Bow B

Hi all,
well, let me start writing every miniature will be usable. We play games and don't sell miniatures, so no problem jet.
About your army list Kironcentauri good start. Honestly speaking at the moment we are defining the basis of the fantasy rules.
For example, Ferocious Charge is an ability we want give to some units for to simulate their bloodthirsty nature, or more easily, the natural ferocity of some type of warriors, like the berserker.
Another point we need to define is the magic. All the spell casters capacities are included in the some unit where he's?
Or he should have a special list of spell?

let me show you an example of army, a barbarian horde.
Name Type M VBU I VD
Brothers blade FM 5 4 3 2
Old fangs FP 5 5 3 2
Searchers FL 6 3 - 1 Longbow B
House guards FP 5 5 4 3 Shield wall
Berserk FL 6 3 5 2
Horsemen CL 12 4 3 3
Valkyrie FL 6 3 5 3 Ferocious charge
Great beast CP 10 5 5 3 Terror
Troll or Yeti FP 6 4 2 3 Regeneration & Stupidity
it's only an exmaple, but le us know what you think about it.
Ciao
Sergente Sturm

I think it's looking good. A couple of points:

1. How will you handle flight, considering the rather restrictive movement of the game?

2. Ferocious charge - when the unit is worn, instead of losing its I bonus, its I bonus is halved rounded up.

3. I think the role of magic should reflect whether the wizard supports the unit or is moving around solo.

i.e. Every race's mages should have one unit ability and a couple of spells. Mages that are based as part of a unit would give the unit a general ability to reflect the magical aid/interference he/she causes. If the mage is bases separately, maybe each race could have 2 or 3 spells - but nothing too over the top!

Terrifying Aura: cast on a friendly unit. The unit causes disorder if it contacts an enemy just like elephants.

Lightning Storm - caster makes a shooting attack at an enemy unit by rolling 1, 2, 3, or 4 dice. Any doubles besides 5s and 6s means the caster dies/takes damage. or something else nasty.

Enchanted Ground - cast on friendly unit. The units ZOC counts as difficult ground to enemy units.

Mass Confusion - cast on enemy unit. If a successful hit is rolled, the unit may either move away from the caster a random distance OR become disordered. Opponent's choice.

Spectral Warriors - cast on a friendly unit. Unit may move and behave as a S unit during it's next activation. Roll a die for each time the spell has been cast on the same unit after the first time and before the spell takes effect (i.e. roll 2 dice the second time this is cast on the same unit, 3 the third time, 4 the 4th time, etc...) If a double is rolled, the unit is permanantly transformed into intangible spirits and drifts away. Remove the unit from play for the rest of the game.

Anyway, these are all just random ideas, and I'm not suggesting they are particularly good ones at that. I look forward to seeing what developments take place.

Keep it up!
JET

Hi Jet and thanks for your suggestions. In fact we don't want to have Mage OVERPOWERED.
They must be useful and nasty, but not the battle winner piece ( even if in some army list maybe they will be more tougher than in others... )
Anyway, thanks again for your suggestions and appreciation.
Sergente Sturm

I'm still in the BI stage right now, but have an interest in fantasy miniature gaming too and was hoping to adapt BI to play fantasy.

Basically I see the army units as a counterpart to their historical look-a-likes be they elf, dwarf, orc, goblin, whatever... except with monstrous creatures.

Centaurs would be light calvary, archers are archers, spear and pikers... etc.

I'm hoping magic/sorcery would be more of a supportive type rather than an attacking type.

Examples: Spells that help units move through rough or forested terrain, or slow units down, summon undead units or raise dead units, confusion & fog spells to make units go astray... stuff like that.

Warren

Hello,
we have started, a little bit late form our planning to develop the rules.
Our main ideas are:
a) Maintain the BI simplicity.
b) Build a set of rules, based on a point system tool for to customize the own fantasy army. We don't produce or sell miniatures and we want the people able to use every minis they have and enjoy. It's important for us only the scale, no more.
c) we have intention to present some army list, but this should be considerate only a guide, an example. Not a lawyer work.
At the moment we have studied near ten rules and two simple army list. If you want to send me, even privately, an email address so I could send you the excel file with that done until now.
Ciao
Sergente Sturm

P.S.
We aren't professional game designers, only people who love minis and wargaming with friends. Any suggestion and good criticism will be well accepted.

I'm new here so be nice (we call that the "puppy factor"), at least for a while... until it rubs off.

I'm going to be playing my 1st game of BI tomorrow night, but I already am hoping that BI (and Impetus) are able to support fantasy battles.



To me it would all depend if the forth coming fantasy lists aren't too extreme or flamboyant. Stacked with too many special abilities that slow the game down too much. If this is the case I'd go with finding a historical unit that resembles what I'm trying to create.

Orcs on Wargs seems like light calvary to me. Elvish Archers seem a lot like regular archers units. Etc, etc... Their racial differences (if any) to each other or to historical units is a mote point... IMHO.

The place that is going to be critical are all those fantastical creatures that do not have a readily historical unit compliment. Dragons, minotaurs, centaurs, demons, and all the other odd & end assortment of creatures that we've all come to know and love from our geeky reading habits.

I'd like to see a way of creating the "special" creature by adding abilities, types of attacks and defenses, and coming up with a point total based on those abilities.

Another important element is the way magic/sorcery is going to be handled. I've played other miniature games where magicians are just treated like a highly mobile artillery unit. While there is nothing really wrong with this, I just think it would cheapen the effect and flavor of what I've read in Basic Impetus. I'm hoping that the magic would be more of a supportive type. Slow down, but not stop and unit. Make the unit move through that terrain at normal speed. Refresh a unit. Cause fear in a unit. Restrict a unit's (or general's) line-of-sight. Etc...

I like a lot of Jet's suggestions and a lot of what sarg said:


I'm liking what I've read in the Excel spreadsheet.

Hi all and thanks for the appreciation.

We have defined until now near 20 abilities working within a point system and we are thinking about the rules for to build the fantasy army.
I mean, not more than 3 abilities and we count ability shooting weapons, no more than two abilities chosen from the fantasy list and so on. This for limit the creation of super mega unit.

Regarding the characters ( wizard, hero and so on ) we are thinking on this system:
a) You can buy up to two heroes ( the general is a fixed parameter in an army ) like Warrior hero, Wizard, Cleric and so on from a little list. This for give the fantasy flavour to our minis.
b) You can buy some special abilities for the personages and add them to an unit. Or alternatively, to create a unit with lower VBU and Impetus values for represent the personage and his loyal henchmen. This for don't have a new super-cracking unit around the tabletop. This will be nice for all of us with the hero on some monster....

Regarding the Flight the idea is to consider it like a second Movement capacity, with it you can move above obstacle without hindrance, but you must obey at the normal rules. This for don't have flight of Stukas on the battlefield. In the some time you have some limits; you can't land in front of an enemy unless you don't want charge him. You must charge frontally except if the front is just under attack.
You can buy this ability for no more than two units.

Regarding the use of the abilities in close combat we are thinking to consider usable only the abilities of the main attacking unit, this for don't have some lower value unit, with special combo used like panzer thanks to the abilities.
We stick at the idea BIF is a mass combat system.

I hope be able to send you a file for the start of the next week with all these ideas. In the meantime play and enjoy it!
Ciao
Sergente Sturm