Can a war chariot make an oblique move or move to the rear at the cost of disorder? If so, can it only be done if starting from stationary or can it do so when in (forward) motion? I don't think oblique and rear movement for war chariots is disallowed in the rules as written. So could a chariot in motion make it's obligatory 1/2 move to the rear instead of forward?

Second question- can "Various" weapons fire indirectly? I am guessing yes since they were made up of bows and javelins.

Dave in Edmonton

1. if you are stationary you can move to the rear or oblique as other Units (=disorder). Don't consider these as moevemts but just as adjustment.
Once you are on movement (foward), you must make at least 1/2 movement foward and you can only add to this half movement a wheel, not other movements.

2. Various weapons are a mix of weapons that can include everything, so are not allowed to perform indirect fire. I agree that this may sound a bit limitative for chariots that used only javelins and bows, but their shooting power is enough strong as it is.

I'm okay with that, now in another thread on war chariots you wrote that:

"Also consider that if you are already disordered you can make movement + wheel without further penalty. "

where is this written in the rules, and does it apply to units other than chariots?

Cheers-

D

Cannot remember when I said this, but according to last version of BI

5.2 WHEELING
A Unit or Group can move or wheel. If not in Disorder, the Unit can wheel (first) and move (afterwards) for the rest of the move, but the Unit will be disordered at the end of the move...

Probably I said this before the change (this limit was introduced in the 2008 version) or probably I was simply wrong

OK, to clarify:

- Non-chariot units can only wheel then move if not in disorder (5.3).
- Non-chariot units can not move then wheel (5.3)
- chariot units (only) can move then wheel causing disorder (5.4)
- chariot units (only) can move then wheel while in disorder (? your previous post ?)

This actually makes disordered chariots more manoueverable than non-chariots in any state...doesn't seem right, am I missing something?

D

well chariots can make the "move+wheel" move without disorder as it is the only way they can wheel once on the move.
Other troops can alternate a move or a wheel, chariots cannot, as they must always move at least 1/2 move.

Also, other troops can make oblique movements, while chariots (unless stationary) cannot.
At the end the chariot is more limited in the manouvre and cannot choose the wanted distance when shhoting, but at the same time it is pretty fast and out of a total control.

OK with this, but can they make "move+wheel" move when they are already disordered? I think this is the root of my confusion. Other units cannot wheel+move when disordered.

D

yes they can. Note that chariots tend to be very often in disorder during the game. The risk would be that they could never turn.
While other units can turn if in disorder, simply they cannot do with a movent foward in the same phase.

As a tactical tip never make the "turn and move" unless stricly necessary (for example for a charge).
1 wheel + 1 straight move = take 2 turns
1 wheel & move + recover from disorder = take 2 turns
same time, but you are more vulnerable during the disorder.

Aha, I had assumed the wording of 5.2 meant that a combination of moving and wheeling always causes disorder. So chariots can go like dune buggies.

OK- thanks!

D

So, to summarize:
a stopped chariot can oblique, sideways or rear move = disorder
a stopped chariot can wheel + move = disorder
moving chariot can move + wheel = no disorder
a disordered moving chariot can move + wheel = no disorder
a forward moving chariot cannot oblique, sideways or rear move.

Is this correct?

correct


can only wheel, not move. A chariot can wheel:
a) stationary, with no disorder
b) on the move, after at least 1/2 move


correct


correct


correct

Lorenzo, many thanks for your patience in clearing this up for us. We found the chariot movement rules tricky to understand.

If I may offer a suggestion for the future, section 5.4 should perhaps provide the full & complete rules for chariot movement. As written now, some of the general movement principles of 5.2 and 5.3 apply (e.g. oblique and rear movement is allowed for disorder) but others do not (wheel then move is prohibited).

Cheers-

Dave

you are right, and probably some tutorials could help.

Yes, thank-you for taking the time to clarify this important aspect of the game. It will greatly enhance gameplay and probably help others with the same questions.

Best wishes,

Mark Wall